This is something I have been meaning to share for some time, I am just now getting around to it: Drone Warfare in CW2. I assume most of you follow Matt Bracken to some extent but this is a good piece on how drones are changing warfare.
So don’t expect me to bash the great American gun culture. Not at all. But I think that on the Right, among patriotic heritage Americans who might describe themselves as preppers, our emphasis on firearms urgently needs to be updated to include the study of modern drone warfare.
Many of our peers own high-quality carbines and battle rifles equipped with variable power scopes our parents could only dream of. Many of them own night vision gear and hard-plate body armor. When they are not on the range, they are in the woods practicing patrolling and small unit tactics. But to a large extent I think they are missing the bus. In Ukraine, some of the world’s toughest soldiers are now reduced to hiding in bunkers and basements from the eyes in the sky. We have all seen dozens of FPV videos showing the final seconds of troops trying in vain to hide from drones. I’m not going to post them here, they are easy enough to find.
Most “prepping” looks like our military, focused on fighting like we did 25 years ago. Drones are quickly changing the battlefield as we have seen in Ukraine and that is a very different world. Even our local sheriffs have drones with IR to track down dudes who are running. You can hire guys with the same basic drones who will locate a deer you shot so you aren’t stumbling around in the dark for hours looking for it.
Drones aren’t going to completely replace infantry of course as there are still things drones can’t do but in pitched combat I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be in some shallow trench waiting for a drone to drop on my head. Drones are relatively cheap and expendable unlike infantry grunts. I looked up what it costs to train an infantryman and this is one estimate I found from Military.com:
It cost millions to recruit, train new troops being booted for vaccine refusal
The cost to recruit and train a new service member varies, but the Army ― the largest service ― estimates it spends about $15,000 to bring someone into the service and another $50,000 to $75,000 to prepare them to join their first unit, depending on their job.
At a minimum that is around $65,000 to get a basic grunt ready to go. Compare that to the cost of a drone, even the expensive ones are nowhere close to that amount. Big Country did a follow-up post to Matt here: More Rifle Work and Commander Bracken’s Article on Drones
As I stated in my article linked HERE “The Infantry is Dead (For Now)” published back in September of 2023 (a lifetime ago it seems).
As I said then, and it bears repeating: “…unless there’s an absolute paradigm shift in personal armoring, i.e. Mobile Mecha/Gundam/Mobile Infantry ‘Marauder Suits’ then the Infantry is going to be damned near finished in it’s traditional role.”
Bill Buppert of the Chasing Ghosts podcast replied to my comment with one of his own that is great:
You have struck at the heart of the argument for the RMA. You are looking at a million dollars minus invested for training, equipment and feeding/billeting one soldier (this will increase and expand as NCOs and officers are put in the cost equation) and remember all American soldiery has to be transported to the expeditionary “beach” to step off and fight. This is why at the end of the day, the US was paying more than a hundreds dollars a gallon to fuel the vehicles in Iraq and Afghanistan not to mention the absolutely ludicrous idea of using transportation aircraft to fly in thousands of pallets of water.
Water.
In the end, it all adds up. Drones are exponentially less costly even at scale and swarm. The salvo competition wins in the end.
Global hegemons like the US have to engage in transportation kabuki no one else can afford to project power and the other shoe drops there. Sure, I do think the infantry is ion for serious refitting and reassessment on their place in the battlefield but to steal a USMC GEN van Riper riff from Exercise Millennium Challenge, I promised I won’t touch your precious infantry but all modes of transportation to include refueling aircraft and naval ships will be attacked as the sky darkens with kamikaze drones. present and future foes have two options: hit US forces at debarkation near their countries or hit US forces in the US at staging areas and everything in between.
I am a former infantryman myself and we all have to step back and swallow our pride and assess this realistically.
When you understand that many of the people doing the planning in places like the Pentagon and the FBI consider White Americans to be a far greater and more immediate threat than Russia or China, you had better believe that in conference rooms they are talking about how to use drones to quell violence from “domestic terrorists” and so we had better figure out what that will mean for heritage Americans.
An important factor to consider. The drones don’t run themselves, and the fiber optic line drones have to have an operator at least reasonably close to the area they are striking. More to the point, these drone guys have names and addresses. It is one thing to fly a Predator halfway around the world from an air conditioned cubicle, it is quite another to be out in the field with a controller.
Regardless, drones are changing the face of the battlefield in a similar fashion to machine guns and tanks and that means that your preparations for the worst case need to include how to deal with drones. That doesn’t mean neglecting the stuff we have been focusing on, rifles and optics and body armor, but it adds yet another level of complexity. Better to think about it now than when you are hiding in cover and hear the sound of a drone heading your way.
Oh dear God, I hope Filthie doesn’t get wound up again. (har har har)
Of course the drone has a harder time picking out the insurgent dressed like everyone else in the crowd.
Not just drone operators have addresses, so do the politicians that order them.
We have to define our terms, Steve, but I have largely given in to the stupidity. Believing is easier than thinking and people are what they are. But in the end I am correct. If you want to wrap a wad of C4 or a high explosive to a cheap hobby drone running on Tatu lipo’s, doing its telemetry with dipole antennas and cheap Chinese electronics … I will wish you the best of luck from well outside the blast radius. Darwin or Murphy will be along to escort you to your spiritual destination shortly.
Our Esteemed Blog Host gets part marks. Cheap hobby drones CAN be used for surveillance duties with some important caveats and limitations. Realize that the vast majority of Ukes were killed on the battlefield by the usual stand off weapons like artillery, mines and gunfire, often directed by drones providing accurate forward observation and surveillance. But these were full blown militarized machines that were hardened for use in areas that often feature heavy jamming and electronic counter measures.
Hobby drones operate on citizen frequencies that can be easily jammed. The radios can easily be triangulated and dealt with. You will be limited to line of sight operations that could potentially expose you to unwanted attention. Finally, hobby stuff is fragile. Electronics and batteries will have to be kept warm, dry and clean. That can be difficult on the battlefield. Even the military stuff failed on the battlefield. The Ukes threw away their Javelins because they were largely ineffective – supposedly because the batteries died.
There will be no devastating super weapon found in HOBBY drones. To clarify, the big Shaheed and Arash fixed wings, the Reapers and larger drones will continue to be a real threat – but only as long as anti missile technology is allowed to languish. Similarly, it is always possible that the eggheads at DARPA/NASA/MI6/James Bond agencies will be able to create viable anti personnel weapons… but they will not be cheap and/or economically viable on the battlefield. There are just too many better ways to kill people.
The real military drone is a squad level weapon the same way the heavier machine guns are. I heartily agree that people really should buy drones or better – build them at home. It is a fun, kid friendly hobby and worth the time on that basis alone.
Glen, I’m not reading the room that says hobby drones are the end of the world. Small, (non hobby?) military drones are killing thousands on both sides with either contact or dropped explosives. Even hobby esque military drones are super cheap compared to traditional hardware. The Ukes outpaced the Russians awhile back by swarming them. The Russians had to hunker down for weeks while various EW measures made it to the front. The Russians now have fly by optic wire that’s good for a claimed 2-3 plus kilometers. They can’t be jammed. Also, autonomous, pre programmed and AI drones can’t be jammed. The Ukes and Russians are way ahead of everybody else.
The US response will be to build the super bestest drones EVAR! Stealth! 23 million a peice, we’ll have literally dozens and dozens! The technology for obsoleting infantry is already out there. Who jumps on it first will have a big advantage.
When it shows up on the US southern border, life will change. I’d give my right nut for you to be correct, but you’re stuck on hobby, when fusion fucking everything is the new order.
Oh yeah, everybody forgot to bring up the US perfected DEW weapons. PAINT YER SHIT BLUE!!!
Be happy, don’t worry.
@ Steve
“Not just drone operators have addresses, so do the politicians that order them.”
Yes, as do their families and toadies!
You know if our side especially those deemed our thought leaders spent more time on how to form up and practiced what preached instead of focusing on defensive measures we might be able to start getting somewhere…JMHO…
What better way to counter enemy drones than with drones of your own?
Got swarm?
I have several smaller drones and I’m getting ready to spring about $1500 for one that is controlled with goggles. Yes, I will wear the goggles and “see” what the drone sees. It’s the only way.
1) It is already vitally important to add Remote Piloted Vehicles and their associated disciplines (electronics, radio, 3D printing) to the toolkit.
2) Drone warfare is the most impactful to the spheres of ISR, armor, and mechanized infantry. Properly used, this gives even more capability and force multiplication to the insurgent than to standard front line infantry, at least at present.
3) The modern drone covered battle space is even more so a place for highly trained small groups of capable infantrymen, who are on the cutting edge of cover and concealment (to include IR signature and EMCON) and have the tools and training to seek out and remove the opponent’s drone capability.
4) At some point in the very near future, fully autonomous hunter/killer platforms will be used. The area for advanced nation states to develop overmatch in these applications will be with automated fast production and more advanced electronics and optics, as well as programming that shortens the OODA loop to the minimum possible. The goal will be to deny drone capability to the opponent.
5) The end of the era of sky dominance by human piloted aircraft is visible on the horizon.
6) The end of the era of armor maneuver warfare is also visible on the horizon.
The chess game continues, ever more complex.
I made an almost stream-of-conciousness comment and forgot one of the most important parts: detection.
The absolute first step everyone needs ASAP is the means to detect when drones are being used in your AO.
These links may help:
https://datawalker.gitbook.io/tinysa-ultra-manual-of-arms
https://limewire.com/d/795f12d1-1d95-439f-8784-ea053f6025e4#0Zj2qa_ucwEnx6Et-kr0P2Falydn2NzyFiHzQmfqLdE
The second link is a machine translated PDF document that is the Ukrainian training manual for using the device discussed in that article for drone detection in the field.
thanks Max!
I highly recommend the tinysa! It’s cheap. An actual drone hand held drone detector $500 on up!
I can’t believe you people are overlooking the obvious solution to this. Don’t any of you shoot skeet?
If so, you have the immediate solution to all your drone problems.
Old Cranky Guy
ISR drones will be far out of range of any shotgun.
Most of the direct attack kamikaze drones are moving to FPV racing drones that move far too fast for anyone to hit with a shotgun, except with pure luck.
The slow low tech drones that drop munitions with hooks are sometimes in range for counter drone fire but these can be engaged just as well (maybe better) with accurate rifle fire.
Shotguns as an anti drone weapon is largely fantasy.
https://substack.com/@londongeeza/note/c-98430773?r=2itq1s
Good Luck…
re : inner-city slum-trash ‘too dumb to operate a drone’
.
a)
Yes, they are opportunists lacking the intelligence for complex planning.
What can those half-wits do to compensate?
During the remainder of this collapse as they expand into suburbs and rural areas, could they recruit Northern European Heritage teens to operate ‘requisitioned’ drones?
.
What would that require?
If I was a pale pudgy teeny-bopper with limited social skills — and I idolize the ‘foreign influence’ televisionprogramming image of inner-city slum-trash ‘music’ and the gangster ‘style’ — I would probably do anything for their promise of one thing in particular:
* the promise of a kidnapped cheerleader sex-slave.
.
Now, do inner-city slum-trash need to make good on the sex-slave promise for kids to fly their drones and kill you or destroy your equipment?
Occasionally, rarely, but just often enough.
.
b)
Can drones be programmed to surveillance your property during daylight, then re-follow that route at 3am to bomb you in your sleep?
Probably.
.
c)
Instead of defense — requiring multiple 24/7/360° LP/OP positions with limited potential for occasional success — I think the singular act for the continuation of Northern European Heritage folk is…
…on the offense.
‘Discourage’ trespassers at the source.
.
I welcome your rebuttal.
I have a similar opinion.
The JewSA has the two most important resources for conducting a massive drone offensive here on home soil already locked up:
1 – The technology: What better way to boost employment (and the sacred economy) than to start ramping up an armaments industry (a la WW2)…….. to use on your own citizens. There’s so mush division here that no one would give a shit what the stuff they were making was used for, and on whom.
2 – An abundance of cyber geeks – most white, but not all of them – dying for recognition after being ostracized from the ‘cool kids’. Give them a comfy techno pad and all the crap food they desire and they’ll be lifers. They wouldn’t know what to do with the cheerleader but a leash case would suffice. Notice how they all faithfully sided with the status quo during the scamdemic.
Would offensive measures work? Lots of planning under a “gray man” mantle would be necessary. The enemy’s ways and means have already been identified so the countermeasures are quantifiable.
I’ll leave it there.
There is no front. Get names and addresses. What would Michael Collins do..When on home turf there are many parts of the enemy chain that can be identified. They have names addresses and others they care about. Enough said.
There is no front.
Study up on the Yugoslav divorce, that’s the likely model for what CW2 looks like.
Squabbles amongst the ruling elites are a prime indicator of potential civil conflict on the horizon. I don’t expect Gay Race Communism to take the dismantling of their power base laying down. IMO we are closer to real conflict right now than we have ever been in my lifetime.
It’s going to be worse than the late 1960’s. Look for it to start when the weather starts getting warmer. That’s usually when riot season begins.
In preparation for the coming shit show, I’ve shelled out a few $$$$ for a drone detector & upgraded amateur radio equipment. Just remember, the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war. When it all begins, to stay alive, you’re going to be doing more listening than transmitting. You need to know what the hell is going on. Also, that little screen on the detector/analyzer, glue your eyes to it! I’ve watched enough war porn from Ukraine to know what a drone can do. All I can say is if you detect a drone, get your ass out of the ASAP.
I’m getting annoyed by all the crybabies declaring that “Drones are the End of Infantry (and Armor)” simply because of, Who runs the Tactical Drones? Well, Infantry Grunts. Meaning that any short-range “Grenade Drone” will be Launched and Operated by personnel in a relatively small AO, and are subject to Interdiction by the same Methods, i.e. the ISR Drone locates the Source of the Enemy Drones, and Attacks it. I particularly like how some have blithely written about “Drone Swarms”, but, how many Drones can you fit in a 5-Ton Cargo Truck? Now you have a Truck as a ‘Target’.
IMO, the small Drone that is capable of reasonable Range with a common Hand Grenade is going to (has been in The ukraine) be the most useful piece of Equipment for the Grunt in the future. War is all about “Adapt or Die” and Drones are just the latest “Superweapon” that is going to have ‘a Day in the Sun’ and then become just another Weapon for which the Countermeasures reduce its value.
Drones are tools, far more aptitude than killing. We’ve been purchasing drones on Craigslist for awhile now,,,,they’re used but so far in decent shape.
Our intent hasn’t been killing, but seeing over the hills, in the forests.
Drones are force multipliers, the ranch is using them daily to review the cattle herd, checking fences, other ranch duties that generally require man power. Hay barns are remote viewed for problems, same with fences, and herd management.
A big drone use is water management, measuring the standing water for management.
Great article, pleased to see others recognizing the value of drones.
I read above and agree the limitations of civilian comms to a drone. Where we are we don’t anticipate a high mil presence, but possible raiders coming after the cattle other resources. These ranch’s are huge often managed by small crews, managing 100s of thousands of cattle, roaming 100s of miles grazing.
Poachers/ cattle rustlers are alive and well in southern Oregon northern California norther Nevada,
Idaho.
Dirk
Park on the road send one of the drones to scout for sick or wounded cattle. Several coyotes have been discovered stalking calves, and dispatched.
Drone management comes down to just how creative you are. Few months back I watched a timber company remote viewed timber with bigger drones for harvest on a steep side hill, before sending a tagging crew up to apply color coordinated paint for the tree fallers.
Mr sido,, really enjoy your blog, i seem to only read it when Pete puts it up on wrsa. recognize your well informed thinker. a rare combo these days it seems.
i see all the names coming here and smile, most of this crew are original wrsa folk. a dam good crew.
thank you for your work
dirk williams
Drones are limited as are all other assets. Terrain is key to any strategy or tactic. Ukraine is a flat place which seems perfect for drones. The description of soldiers hiding in bunkers from drones is questionable.
Antiaircraft gun emplacements can be reinvented to counter drone attacks. Yes?
Drone be sayin’ “I’m gonna take out these dudes” and suddenly AA battery opens fire from concealment.