Two quotes from the Godfather come to m: “…make him an offer he cannot refuse ” and “It’s nothing personal, it’s strictly business”. It is very likely that we will never hear the real story.
Since people who betray Putin or Russia usually end up on a slab, that must have been a heckuva deal…My guess is that the whole thing was a scam cooked up by Prigozhin and Putin, and the US just lost 6 Billion that was supposed to support the “rebellion.”
Some sort of good cop/bad cop kayfabe to throw off western observers? Hell if I know. Russia is kind of a black box, amd I don’t pretend to have more than a superficial understanding of the culture. Whatever the case, it certainly gave the anti-Russia crowd a momentary hard on last night.
From the beginning, the way Clownworld and its (((media))) was Freaking Out, I figured this was/is some kind of Psyop – that said, Art is correct in saying that we don’t understand Russia well enough to read between the Lines and figure out what is REALLY going on.
One thing that was pointed out, more than a Month ago, was that what Prizoghin had been saying, publicly, Insults against the Military Leadership and the MOD should have gotten him Arrested- There’s actually a Law against that, and calling the Stavka a bunch of Traitors would fall right under it. Perhaps, whatever latitude he had in that respect was Exceeded, and his Usefulness has come to an End.
We try to assume Russians think like we do because they look like us, unlike the Chinese or Arabs, but it is very different. Supposedly you need to read a bunch of books to figure it out, I just don’t have the time.
My bet’s also on psyop. But by whom and what’s the take home message supposed to be.
Here’s a stupid possibility (but the supposedly smartest people believe in and do a lot of stupid things, because ingrained paranoia, resentment, and hatred warp their world view):
“Just as Father Zelenskyy looks out for his fellow Ukrainians, so Father Prigozhin looks out for his fellow Russians! Let us unite the Slavs under Zelenskyy and Prigozhin! Both archetypal 100% Slavs!”
We live in an age where we can no longer trust ANYTHING we see or hear. (Perhaps we never could, really…)
I’m sure it’s happened to many of you – you’ve listened to Putler’s speeches on Alt-media, being translated in real time…and then listened to CNN or MSNBC ‘summarize’ the speech that in no way reflects what the man actually said. I am old enough to remember editors that would fire people for work like that.
I wonder if this “coup” wasn’t another premature agitprop debacle by the lamestream media? None of the facts fit the narrative. A coup? A mutiny, resolved in a day? Without the captain OR the mutineers swinging on a rope? Is it possible something completely different happened? If so…what? Prighozen – challenging the full might of the Russian military? How could he possibly hope to survive – much less win?
Something is not adding up here; and the media slobs will be the last guys to figure it out.
Putin isn’t the only person they’ve done that to.
Hitler himself. I’ve not seen any of his full speeches translated right in any mainstream show or movie. Now, there are translations out there (not too common, might find them passed around via peer2peer or some other sites) and they paint an entirely different picture of the man and what he wanted for his people. They’ve been pulling this shit for ages. Same with his writings. I suggest the Dalton translation capturing the spirit of it, or Stalag edition if you want something done during that time period (though clunky).
Point is, it’s a trick they’ve used throughout the years.
Unless I see it live, in person, or someone I really trust does? I don’t completely believe it. They have been lying about everything for so long, why would They tell the truth?
If he goes to Belarus, how many of his troops go with him? The president of Belarus is pretty pro Russia/Putin. I don’t recall this guy taking Putin to task, just the generals. So – is he there to help ensure the loyalty of Belarus? A lot of the supplies being delivered through Poland travel fairly close to the Belarus/Polish border. Mercenary raids on the supply lines? Might give a measure of deniability.
There is now a working theory being bandied about in some online locales to the effect that Priggy was operating in behalf of western “intelligence” (CIA) to depose Putin/destabilize Russia, but the “official” story that Shoigu was the target was a cover to get his guys inside the Kremlin where Putin would then be nicked. Some variations on this same basic scenario involving various other Russian govt officials are being put forward as well. Given how dirty (and increasingly ham-fisted) we know the intel agencies are, that makes a plausible enough theory.
What doesn’t pass the smell test for me is that Priggy was exiled (allowed to leave the country with his skull and brain intact) to Belarus, which is pro-Russian anyway. He could easily be gotten there by FSB, or whoever the Russians dispatch to clean the operation. I don’t see a guy who just fomented a coup simply walking away, with his Russian citizenship being stripped as the only material consequence.
And may I say that clownworld really doesn’t deliver these days. That was an attempted coup? Come on now. Near as we know (and we really don’t, of course) not a single shot was fired. Shit, even the bush league J6 setup here saw the murder of a citizen by govt thugs. And I’m neither condoning nor glorifying that, mind you. Just saying that it was more than appears to have taken place in Russia now. Finally, the mere fact the state media propaganda machine over here immediately went orgasmic over this makes the whole thing highly suspect.
Remember when the side shows were just simple spy balloons, train wrecks, burning bridges, and strong, diverse, inspiring mini-submarines full of fatalistic rich dudes? Ah, the good old days.
That one Substack guy, Simplicius, said around 20 Russians were killed when choppers were shot down by Wagner, not sure if even that is accurate but that Priggy guy can’t think that if this was a real deal that Putin will let him live.
Didn’t see that detail pop up until hours after I posted the above. If there were actually 20 fatalities stemming from this abortive coup attempt (or whatever the hell it was), then letting Priggy “walk” out to exile is even more inconceivable to me. The guy can’t be that indispensable to Russian interests, even as the CEO of Wagner. And now he is probably untrustworthy, unless this was all a big put on. And that possibility still exists; but to what end is the question.
…unless BCE’s working theory turns out to be valid. And if it does, I’d absolutely laugh my ass off that the morons who “run” this country could get punked so badly.
Not that it needs pointig out, but this isn’t about pulling for Russia. It is about the need to find an adversary – any adversary – who can fuck up the plans of globohomo, stunt their progress, and publicly embarass them. Better still, one that can materially disrupt the ability of the GAE and the “rules based order” of western powers to keep doing the bullshit they’re doing to our detriment. I don’t trust Russia or Putin. But if they can be in any way useful to my goal of seeing the US war for profit and neocon vengeance machine (and govt in general) being kneecapped, I’m entirely ok with letting them do so.
If nothing else, this spat with Russia takes money and hardware that might be deployed for other nefarious actions – including inward on the citizenry of the FUSA – and turns it into financial losses and scrap metal in Ukraine. And it is well apparent the hardware being mangled and burned into piles of shit will not (cannot) be replaced quickly, owing to tbe long term gutting of our industrial capacity and competence, and reliance on suplliers located inside hostile countries. Will that work? I’ve no idea, but if not Russia, no other adversary with a chance of effecting such – outside of China – is evident anywhere on the horizon.
General Armageddon made a video with a suppressed weapon on his lap telling him to stand down.
My bet is that magner just played the west.
That is a pretty safe bet
Two quotes from the Godfather come to m: “…make him an offer he cannot refuse ” and “It’s nothing personal, it’s strictly business”. It is very likely that we will never hear the real story.
That didn’t stop lots of internet experts from telling us the “real story” thirty seconds after the news broke
Yeah, Aesop comes to mind.
Since people who betray Putin or Russia usually end up on a slab, that must have been a heckuva deal…My guess is that the whole thing was a scam cooked up by Prigozhin and Putin, and the US just lost 6 Billion that was supposed to support the “rebellion.”
Some sort of good cop/bad cop kayfabe to throw off western observers? Hell if I know. Russia is kind of a black box, amd I don’t pretend to have more than a superficial understanding of the culture. Whatever the case, it certainly gave the anti-Russia crowd a momentary hard on last night.
Very few Westerners understand Russia, and I sure as hell don’t
“…,it certainly gave the anti-Russia crowd a momentary hard on last night.”.
Are you referring to Aesop?
Any outcome other than Prizoghin’s head on a spike weakens Putin. Whether this is all staged or not. But that’s the #1 reason it isn’t staged.
Going into exile in Belarus? That guy is a dead man unless this was a psyop all along.
My philosophy… it is clown world so nothing is off the table.
From the beginning, the way Clownworld and its (((media))) was Freaking Out, I figured this was/is some kind of Psyop – that said, Art is correct in saying that we don’t understand Russia well enough to read between the Lines and figure out what is REALLY going on.
One thing that was pointed out, more than a Month ago, was that what Prizoghin had been saying, publicly, Insults against the Military Leadership and the MOD should have gotten him Arrested- There’s actually a Law against that, and calling the Stavka a bunch of Traitors would fall right under it. Perhaps, whatever latitude he had in that respect was Exceeded, and his Usefulness has come to an End.
We try to assume Russians think like we do because they look like us, unlike the Chinese or Arabs, but it is very different. Supposedly you need to read a bunch of books to figure it out, I just don’t have the time.
Whatever the truth, which we won’t know for years, the CIA/Military seems to be missing 6 Billion…
My bet’s also on psyop. But by whom and what’s the take home message supposed to be.
Here’s a stupid possibility (but the supposedly smartest people believe in and do a lot of stupid things, because ingrained paranoia, resentment, and hatred warp their world view):
“Just as Father Zelenskyy looks out for his fellow Ukrainians, so Father Prigozhin looks out for his fellow Russians! Let us unite the Slavs under Zelenskyy and Prigozhin! Both archetypal 100% Slavs!”
Wagner went from paramilitary terrorists to noble revolutionaries and back to paramilitary terrorists in record time.
We live in an age where we can no longer trust ANYTHING we see or hear. (Perhaps we never could, really…)
I’m sure it’s happened to many of you – you’ve listened to Putler’s speeches on Alt-media, being translated in real time…and then listened to CNN or MSNBC ‘summarize’ the speech that in no way reflects what the man actually said. I am old enough to remember editors that would fire people for work like that.
I wonder if this “coup” wasn’t another premature agitprop debacle by the lamestream media? None of the facts fit the narrative. A coup? A mutiny, resolved in a day? Without the captain OR the mutineers swinging on a rope? Is it possible something completely different happened? If so…what? Prighozen – challenging the full might of the Russian military? How could he possibly hope to survive – much less win?
Something is not adding up here; and the media slobs will be the last guys to figure it out.
Putin isn’t the only person they’ve done that to.
Hitler himself. I’ve not seen any of his full speeches translated right in any mainstream show or movie. Now, there are translations out there (not too common, might find them passed around via peer2peer or some other sites) and they paint an entirely different picture of the man and what he wanted for his people. They’ve been pulling this shit for ages. Same with his writings. I suggest the Dalton translation capturing the spirit of it, or Stalag edition if you want something done during that time period (though clunky).
Point is, it’s a trick they’ve used throughout the years.
Unless I see it live, in person, or someone I really trust does? I don’t completely believe it. They have been lying about everything for so long, why would They tell the truth?
If he goes to Belarus, how many of his troops go with him? The president of Belarus is pretty pro Russia/Putin. I don’t recall this guy taking Putin to task, just the generals. So – is he there to help ensure the loyalty of Belarus? A lot of the supplies being delivered through Poland travel fairly close to the Belarus/Polish border. Mercenary raids on the supply lines? Might give a measure of deniability.
I read somewhere that some of Wagner is being deployed to the Belarus/Russian border which seems interesting/ominous.
There is now a working theory being bandied about in some online locales to the effect that Priggy was operating in behalf of western “intelligence” (CIA) to depose Putin/destabilize Russia, but the “official” story that Shoigu was the target was a cover to get his guys inside the Kremlin where Putin would then be nicked. Some variations on this same basic scenario involving various other Russian govt officials are being put forward as well. Given how dirty (and increasingly ham-fisted) we know the intel agencies are, that makes a plausible enough theory.
What doesn’t pass the smell test for me is that Priggy was exiled (allowed to leave the country with his skull and brain intact) to Belarus, which is pro-Russian anyway. He could easily be gotten there by FSB, or whoever the Russians dispatch to clean the operation. I don’t see a guy who just fomented a coup simply walking away, with his Russian citizenship being stripped as the only material consequence.
And may I say that clownworld really doesn’t deliver these days. That was an attempted coup? Come on now. Near as we know (and we really don’t, of course) not a single shot was fired. Shit, even the bush league J6 setup here saw the murder of a citizen by govt thugs. And I’m neither condoning nor glorifying that, mind you. Just saying that it was more than appears to have taken place in Russia now. Finally, the mere fact the state media propaganda machine over here immediately went orgasmic over this makes the whole thing highly suspect.
Remember when the side shows were just simple spy balloons, train wrecks, burning bridges, and strong, diverse, inspiring mini-submarines full of fatalistic rich dudes? Ah, the good old days.
That one Substack guy, Simplicius, said around 20 Russians were killed when choppers were shot down by Wagner, not sure if even that is accurate but that Priggy guy can’t think that if this was a real deal that Putin will let him live.
Didn’t see that detail pop up until hours after I posted the above. If there were actually 20 fatalities stemming from this abortive coup attempt (or whatever the hell it was), then letting Priggy “walk” out to exile is even more inconceivable to me. The guy can’t be that indispensable to Russian interests, even as the CEO of Wagner. And now he is probably untrustworthy, unless this was all a big put on. And that possibility still exists; but to what end is the question.
I did say wait a bit and see what happens when the smoke clears.
I didn’t expect it to be over this fast, though.
That was one of the weirdest days in a long tome
This could be as simple as: Prigo, before making his move, stashed his family somewhere he thought was safe. Vovka sent him (through Luka) pictures…
*btw, it is Vova, Volodya or Vovka not Vlad; Vlad is short for Vladislav.
“The greatest gift the creator bestows upon us is the hatred of our enemies whom we in turn hate from the bottom of our hearts.”
Adolf Hitler
It’s a WTF moment. Not a Putin win by any means.
…unless BCE’s working theory turns out to be valid. And if it does, I’d absolutely laugh my ass off that the morons who “run” this country could get punked so badly.
Not that it needs pointig out, but this isn’t about pulling for Russia. It is about the need to find an adversary – any adversary – who can fuck up the plans of globohomo, stunt their progress, and publicly embarass them. Better still, one that can materially disrupt the ability of the GAE and the “rules based order” of western powers to keep doing the bullshit they’re doing to our detriment. I don’t trust Russia or Putin. But if they can be in any way useful to my goal of seeing the US war for profit and neocon vengeance machine (and govt in general) being kneecapped, I’m entirely ok with letting them do so.
If nothing else, this spat with Russia takes money and hardware that might be deployed for other nefarious actions – including inward on the citizenry of the FUSA – and turns it into financial losses and scrap metal in Ukraine. And it is well apparent the hardware being mangled and burned into piles of shit will not (cannot) be replaced quickly, owing to tbe long term gutting of our industrial capacity and competence, and reliance on suplliers located inside hostile countries. Will that work? I’ve no idea, but if not Russia, no other adversary with a chance of effecting such – outside of China – is evident anywhere on the horizon.